Winds of Change

Discussions of the arcane symbols of Tarot and other decks
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Symbols appear on each and every tarot card - visual signs that convey meaning. Some of them are highly individual and personal, others time-honored and traditional. Some are easy to understand, others difficult and multivalent. In this forum, we want to study symbols from different decks, traditions and cultures together using books, websites, lwbs and our own intuition.
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Barleywine
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Winds of Change

Post by Barleywine » 07 Feb 2018, 15:55

Our recurring discussions about the nature of the Death card got me thinking that there are a number of other cards in the deck whose principle consequence is some kind of change (although in truth if I were asked which cards represent change, I would say "all of them"). But there are a few that stand out above the others as more active harbingers of change. My short list, further explained in the link to my post on the subject, is:

Trumps:
The Chariot
The Wheel of Fortune
Death
The Tower
Judgement

Courts:
All of the Knights

Pips:
All of the Fives
All of the Sevens
All of the Tens

In my post I discuss all of the cards and my reasons for including some and not others.

https://parsifalswheeldivination.com/20 ... of-change/

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kyan
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Re: Winds of Change

Post by kyan » 07 Feb 2018, 17:10

maybe that giant sucking sound is just the page cleaning up after the mess the 10 has made. :icon_e_biggrin:

the tower of definitely a game-changer.

my friend informs me that it burns off the dross experienced through the devil and temperance cards, for 16 is the colossal card of ego. in some cases you go all the way back to the beginning with this one.


(speaking of change, i actually pulled the death card last night and couldn’t deal with it, so i put it back in favor of the 9 of wands. i’m glad you made this blog post.)

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Nemia
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Re: Winds of Change

Post by Nemia » 07 Feb 2018, 17:12

Very interesting!

I found in my tarot calendar musings that the Fives and Sevens on the Tree of Life, Gvura and Netzach, seem to pull Tif'eret, the middle sephira, into different directions. The Fives/Gvura into the direction of Mars, action, chaos, destruction. The Sevens/Venus into the direction of self indulgence, debauch, inner weakness.

If we read the three decans of each sign as repetitions of the cardinal-fixed-mutable pattern, and there are good reasons to do so, then Six is the fixed of the fixed. In order to keep that Fixedness in place, Gvura and Netzach pull it - like a tent pole held in place by two ropes.

Hod and Chessed btw also pull at Tif'eret but the numbers Four and Eight are so much more stable than Five and Seven - you build houses in their shapes, stable things. And then, Chessed's Jupiter and Hod's Mercury don't have the dramatic relationship that Venus and Mars have :-)

So for me, the Fives and Sevens are the instable fringes of the stable Six. (Still, we have the Six of Swords that indicates readiness to change - Mercury's influence on the cool, objective mind of Aquarius - a person who is not emotionally attached to ideas, theories or situations and is ready to go - ready for change - but from a position of strength, not weakness).

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Re: Winds of Change

Post by Barleywine » 07 Feb 2018, 18:02

The whole dynamic from the Fives to the Nines is of great interest to me, especially as Aleister Crowley delineates it in the Book of Thoth. I realize that he was trying to build a kabbalistic basis for his cards, but it all hangs together beautifully with the images. His entire panoramic view of number theory as embodied in the Tree of Life has always inspired me to deeper thought on the card meanings and interrelationships than might otherwise have been the case, even with Case, Wang and a few other esoteric writers under my belt. Only Joseph Maxwell stands up to that benchmark, but I also got a lot of mileage out of Elizabeth Hazel and Isobel Kliegman.

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kyan
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Re: Winds of Change

Post by kyan » 07 Feb 2018, 20:11

Nemia wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 17:12
Very interesting!

I found in my tarot calendar musings that the Fives and Sevens on the Tree of Life, Gvura and Netzach, seem to pull Tif'eret, the middle sephira, into different directions. The Fives/Gvura into the direction of Mars, action, chaos, destruction. The Sevens/Venus into the direction of self indulgence, debauch, inner weakness.

If we read the three decans of each sign as repetitions of the cardinal-fixed-mutable pattern, and there are good reasons to do so, then Six is the fixed of the fixed. In order to keep that Fixedness in place, Gvura and Netzach pull it - like a tent pole held in place by two ropes.

Hod and Chessed btw also pull at Tif'eret but the numbers Four and Eight are so much more stable than Five and Seven - you build houses in their shapes, stable things. And then, Chessed's Jupiter and Hod's Mercury don't have the dramatic relationship that Venus and Mars have :-)

So for me, the Fives and Sevens are the instable fringes of the stable Six. (Still, we have the Six of Swords that indicates readiness to change - Mercury's influence on the cool, objective mind of Aquarius - a person who is not emotionally attached to ideas, theories or situations and is ready to go - ready for change - but from a position of strength, not weakness).
omg. that’s so complex my head is spinning. obviously there is so much more to tarot than most will ever know.

i do like the notion of “six is the fixed of the fixed” as it brings up the hexagonal crystalline structure of quartz and other minerals.

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Re: Winds of Change

Post by Nemia » 08 Feb 2018, 00:15

Kyan, for YEARS I didn't touch Kabbalah with a barge pole because I was sure it's too complex for me. Then all of a sudden, after reading-but-not-understanding-anything-about-kabbalah, the penny dropped and the whole Tree of Life made sense. It's like learning a language. You learn and study but can't talk freely. All of a sudden, you can.

Once you understand the Tree of Life with its ten stages, called sephiroth, and you understand that the minors are associated with the sephiroth that carry the same number, you get a lot more information out of the minors. It's like seeing the numbers One to Ten as living entities, with associated colours, planets and characteristics.

Believe me, it sounded like Chinese to me for years.

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kyan
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Re: Winds of Change

Post by kyan » 08 Feb 2018, 01:23

yes, i can imagine the added depth it brings to a reading. i think part of my hesitancy is because i dislike numbers in general, i was always bad in math and am left handed, which led people to inform me that i am right brained and more intuitive and less analytical. it is true, numbers are a challenge, while artistic and other creative expression is easier, for sure.

but who knows? i painted a tree of life ceramic tile piece for william shatner’s 80th birthday (a commission), so maybe that was a sign that the kabbalah will come into my life somehow. :icon_e_smile:

i’ve never been particulary intrigued by numerology and astrology either. i’ve known several astrology enthusiasts throughout my life, and a friend now is really into vedic astrology, which is totally new to me. she loooves figuring out those complicated charts. at least they appear to be complicated. like you said, sometimes the penny drops. it’s happened before with music — i’ve struggled to learn a technique, and voila! one day it seems so easy.

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Re: Winds of Change

Post by Nemia » 08 Feb 2018, 01:31

I'm totally allergic to numbers, too. Get cold sweat when I see formulas etc. I can never calculate how much something is in dollar, euro or whatever. That's why I love the kabbalah - the numbers get a character, something like synaesthesia, they turn into something I can grasp and work with.

So no fears. You can work fine with the tarot without kabbalah etc. And Barleywine's interpretations are totally usable without any esoteric baggage. Sorry I derailed this thread :icon_redface: :icon_redface:

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Re: Winds of Change

Post by Barleywine » 08 Feb 2018, 06:03

One thing I did when I first started studying the Kabbalah was to latch onto the concepts of the "descent of spirit into matter" (the descending "Path of the Lightning Flash") and "rising on the planes" (the "Way of Return" or the ascending "Path of the Serpent" - which has parallels to the Kundalin). This helped me see numbers as a progression, becoming either more or less substantial depending on which direction you're working. (This is what Crowley explains so well.) In practical usage, I tend not to get too involved in all the paths between any two "emanations" at the same time because it gives me more than I need for my purpose.

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Re: Winds of Change

Post by kyan » 08 Feb 2018, 06:19

oh, no worries, nemia. i understand and appreciate your enthusiasm for the kabbalah, so one day, who knows? the tree of life is referenced often enough (even with RWS) so it’s always there to remind me there’s more to learn. :icon_e_smile:

besides, the dali tarot and the renaissance tarot both feature hebrew letters (in the correct spots!), so that’s a start!

speaking of change, the tower in the renaissance deck is so mild. no one is being hurled down, the lightning looks like a dental pic, and the damage it has done is minor, so far. the smoke from the tower even looks like a cloud. the wind of change is minimal with this card!

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