You are obviously mixing up the elementary attributes of the signs with those of the planets they are ruled by. They are not the same.Barleywine wrote: ↑16 Oct 2017, 18:56Unfortunately, in neither tarot trumps nor in astrological rulerships do you get a "Water" option for Venus, only Earth and Air, and no "Air" option for Jupiter, only Fire and Water. I'm going strictly with planetary rulerships here, and made a decision between the two options, taking the first sign of rulership in the sequence as the primary. Regarding Jupiter, I've seen it formally called Fire, Air and Water at various places in the classical literature. It's just a judgment call that works in my own system of interpretation, and is subject to revision. (I'm well-aware of Lilly's attributions: he cites the temperament of Venus as "airy and watery" and that of Jupiter as "airy," but he stays with the classical rulerships. Venus is exalted in a Water sign, but then so is Jupiter.)Michael Sternbach wrote: ↑16 Oct 2017, 15:08Looking at your lists, I see that you put Jupiter in Fire, Venus in Earth. While this reflects some of their sign rulerships, it is based on a wide spread misconception. In classical astrology, the planets represent the elements this way:
Mars = Fire
Venus = Water
Jupiter = Air
Saturn = Earth
Quintessence = Mercury
The GD attributed elements to the "planetary" Trump cards according to this scheme.
The elementary attributions of the planets are suggested already in Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos, where he calls Jupiter "warm and moist", which makes this planet akin to Air, as per the Aristotelian system of elements and their constituting qualities (or proto-elements). They have been fully spelled out at the latest in Raymond Lull's universal system of correspondences, where the planets are used pretty much interchangeably with the elements.
This system was the one accepted by almost all ancient, medieval and Renaissance astrologers in East and West. The only appreciable ambiguity that comes to mind concerns Mercury, which is sometimes seen as being of more of a Quintessential nature, in other sources however as more of an Earthy character. Then again, Mercury is always the odd ball in the traditional texts!
These correspondences were also received in the system of bodily humours of Galenian medicine, where, e.g., Yellow Bile = Jupiter = Air.
Lilly knew this system for sure. But it was never intended as an alternative to the classical rulerships. So yes, Jupiter belongs to Air, yet he rules a Fire sign and a Water sign. <shrug>