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Birth Charts

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Jo Ann
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Birth Charts

Post by Jo Ann » 01 Feb 2018, 15:40

I hope you are still here.

I have some questions about birth charts. The first one being, "How much does not knowing the time of your birth affect the birth chart?
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Charlie Brown
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Re: Birth Charts

Post by Charlie Brown » 01 Feb 2018, 15:43

I'm not an expert but I think that not knowing the time and location means that you can't use the houses with any expectation of accuracy. I don't think it matters much for the planets, although it might for the moon. For sure, you can't figure out the ascendent
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Jo Ann
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Re: Birth Charts

Post by Jo Ann » 01 Feb 2018, 16:28

Well I know where, Just not when. besides, i don't understand the whole birthchart thing
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Barleywine
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Re: Birth Charts

Post by Barleywine » 01 Feb 2018, 17:40

In very basic terms, the planets describe the "what," the signs the "how" and the houses the "where" of the qualities expressed in the natal chart. Planets are the active principle, the signs and houses are modifiers that "color" the pure influence of the planetary energy like "lenses" or "filters." The critical time-dependent element is the house structure, especially what are known as the "chart axes," the Ascendant/Descendant (where the Sun rises and sets) and the Midheaven/Imum Coeli (essentially noon and midnight). The Ascendant is one of the three main building-blocks of the architecture of the personality, along with the Sun and Moon. If you have no idea of the time of birth, you're basically missing one-third of the most important puzzle pieces. Since the Ascendant shows how the world sees you and how you present yourself to it, having it wrong can cause confusion over why the character descriptions in the astrological texts don't seem to make sense. This will also throw off the intermediate houses, whose divisions are based on segments of time between the two axes, so that the department of life where a planet would be expected to play its role can't be relied on to be energized by that planet if the planetary energy really belongs somewhere else.

Some astrologers, not knowing the accurate birth time, will cast a "noon chart," which places the Sun at the zenith in the chart, and work backwards from there to fill out the rest of the structure. The so-called "tabloid astrologers" assume that the Sun on any given day is on your Ascendant, and build the daily chart interpretation on the houses derived from that. It's always possible to "rectify" or adjust a chart according to major life events that would normally be associated with particular planetary placements, but it's difficult and time-consuming with no guarantee of success.

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Michael Sternbach
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Re: Birth Charts

Post by Michael Sternbach » 01 Feb 2018, 18:42

A birth chart is a simplified snapshot of the cosmos (usually limited to our solar system) as seen from a specfic terrestrial location at the time of, well, a birth. But it is possible to cast that kind of chart for any kind of event, of course.

The positions of the planets (including the two Luminaries Sun and Moon, and sometimes additional bodies such as asteroids) are calculated and depicted in relation to the zodiac, which is the apparent course of the Sun (called ecliptic) during the year, divided into twelve sectors measuring 30 degrees each. These are the so-called star signs. They each give the celestial bodies which are abiding therein at a particular time a specific "colour".

Thus, if you were born, let's say, toward the end of July or sometime during the first three weeks of August, your Sun (representing the core of your being) would be in Leo, and that would entail certain psychological and physical traits. The same applies to the Moon (your basic emotional nature), Mercury (the way you think and express yourself), Venus (the way you relate to others), Mars (the way you assert yourself), and so on.

As Charlie correctly pointed out, most celestial bodies don't move much within one day relative to the zodiac, except the Moon, which traverses a sign in about two and a half days, so she can very well change her sign on one and the same day.

While the celestial bodies' movement along the zodiac has got to do with their (and Earth's) actual movement within the solar system, there is a second level of movement to be considered which is due to our planet's daily rotation. Whatever degree of a zodiacal sign (with or without a celestial body on it) rises on the horizon at the place and time a chart is cast for is called the Ascendent, exactly opposite to which there is the Descendent.

By the same token, where the circle of the zodiac crosses the meridian (an imaginary circle going through the points right above your head and beneath your feet, which also connects North and South on the horizon), you have the Midheaven or Medium Coeli (MC) on top and Imum Coeli (IC) on the bottom respectively.

There is another circle. It connects ASC, IC, DSC and MC (in most systems of delineation, anyway) and is called the Wheel of Houses. Like the zodiac, it is divided into twelve sectors; each of them resonates with one of the twelve signs. However, the significance of the houses has got to do more with terrestrial affairs, i.e. areas of life in which the energies of the planets and zodiacal signs are being manifested, whereas the signs are in essence celestial archetypes pertaining to the human soul.

Now the significance of knowing your time of birth becomes rather obvious; because the signs of the zodiac and all the bodies projected onto them apparently fully travel around the Earth one time during the course of a day. Therefore, their house positions will be continuously changing, on the average once within two hours. It is still possible to delineate a chart without taking the houses into account, perhaps adding an educated guess regarding the sign of the Moon, however, the reading will of necessity be more generalized.

A further basic consideration is the relationship that various celestial bodies have to each other, expressed in their angular distance along the circle. These are the so-called aspects.

E.g., when the Sun and Mars are about 90 degrees or one quarter of the zodiac away from each other, they are said to be standing in a square, which is a dynamic and often quite challenging kind of interaction. However, when 120 degrees or a third of the zodiac apart from one another, they form a trine, which would indicate a harmonious cooperation between those two forces.

Okay, that's the basics of chart delineation in a nutshell for you. I hope I explained them in a clear manner. If you want me to elaborate on certain things, just ask. :icon_e_smile:

In the USA, your time of birth is recorded on your birth certificate. Generally not down to the exact minute, but accurately enough for most astrological purposes.

Edit: I just saw that Barleywine posted a reply of his own while I was still working on mine. Some overlap there regarding content, but not all that much. There is really so much that can be said even about the most basic astrology, from various angles.

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seray
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Re: Birth Charts

Post by seray » 07 Aug 2018, 06:13

Barleywine wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 17:40
In very basic terms, the planets describe the "what," the signs the "how" and the houses the "where" of the qualities expressed in the natal chart. Planets are the active principle, the signs and houses are modifiers that "color" the pure influence of the planetary energy like "lenses" or "filters." The critical time-dependent element is the house structure, especially what are known as the "chart axes," the Ascendant/Descendant (where the Sun rises and sets) and the Midheaven/Imum Coeli (essentially noon and midnight). The Ascendant is one of the three main building-blocks of the architecture of the personality, along with the Sun and Moon. If you have no idea of the time of birth, you're basically missing one-third of the most important puzzle pieces. Since the Ascendant shows how the world sees you and how you present yourself to it, having it wrong can cause confusion over why the character descriptions in the astrological texts don't seem to make sense. This will also throw off the intermediate houses, whose divisions are based on segments of time between the two axes, so that the department of life where a planet would be expected to play its role can't be relied on to be energized by that planet if the planetary energy really belongs somewhere else.

Some astrologers, not knowing the accurate birth time, will cast a "noon chart," which places the Sun at the zenith in the chart, and work backwards from there to fill out the rest of the structure. The so-called "tabloid astrologers" assume that the Sun on any given day is on your Ascendant, and build the daily chart interpretation on the houses derived from that. It's always possible to "rectify" or adjust a chart according to major life events that would normally be associated with particular planetary placements, but it's difficult and time-consuming with no guarantee of success.

Hello,

I appreciate your description a lot. I thought without the time of your birth you cannot calculate the ascendant at all and I guess this is right. Can be this estimate with a "noon" chart somehow be accurate? I don't really think so.
I think to rather spend time in finding out the time of your birth is more effective then spending a lot of time in adjusting a chart based on major life events - as you were mentioning.
Isn't the time of your birth written on your birth certificate? Or maybe you can find out in the archives of the place you were born if you were not born at home.

I'm curious how you are proceeding @Jo_Ann!

Love
Seray

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Barleywine
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Re: Birth Charts

Post by Barleywine » 07 Aug 2018, 15:39

Normally, if you were born in a hospital, their records would have the time of birth that should have been recorded on your birth certificate. That's where I would start; lacking that, a parent's or relative's memory is the best shot you have. Hospital records may not be entirely accurate either, since the time could have been rounded off. I was born at a time after WWII when War Time was transitioning to Daylight Savings Time in the US and not all jurisdictions applied it consistently. My recorded time gives me a Sagittarius ascendant, which is no way accurate; a one-hour adjustment yields the Scorpio ascendant I presently use. This gives me the culminating 10th House Mars in Virgo that defined my entire technological career, which was mostly spent in entrepreneurial management roles.

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Belinda2
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Re: Birth Charts

Post by Belinda2 » 07 Aug 2018, 17:36

In the USA it is on the birth certificate But in some other countries I have been told it is not on there at all.

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